"If you think it's real, it's real. If you don't believe in it, it's not there. You can only touch what's in front of you, but everything else is just in your head" George J. Kissell
I'm not going to start a debate or anything, but I will say this...
The great thing about God is that...He is more than just something in the head and cannot be seen. The God I believe in and know is very present in life, and more directly in my own. He has shown me very clearly things that no other person would know about other people, and ... Read Moreinsights in situations. I have felt his unimaginable peace when faced with death, financial despair, and family hardships. I have seen unexplained and impossible healings that only God can do, and as He leads and directs me in my life and helped me to find my way when I was lost and confused in what to do as vocation, he helped me see my purpose...and I am now living a life where I feel more fulfilled than I ever have in anything I tried myself just to try. He is more than in my head...he is by my side, in my heart, and guiding me, giving me strength and boldness to do things I never dreamed I could ever do. My relationship with Jesus is personal and very real.
If you don't believe in God, that is your own choice, but God does not need your permission to exist and be present on this earth. Even more importantly, even if you reject him and want nothing to do with him, even then he still loves you and in fact grieves over your separated relationship. He has made a way through Jesus for anyone who wants to have a personal relationship with him can and will be given his peace, guidance, and more than we ever asked for (maybe not in material possession, but things like self-control, joy, and what we need). But those who don't will be faced with the day that he does physically show himself to them, and they will forever be separated from him, loved ones, and anything good and right. They will live in eternal abandonment with no relationships with people or other beings, loneliness, and unimaginable pain and suffering, with no hope of escape, rescue, or relief. That is the destiny of all of us, but even at our worst Jesus took that sentence for us by dieing and coming back to life, giving all of us who believe and follow him a chance to not only not go to that Hell, but to enjoy everything that is good, pleasurable, and right, and gain a perfect relationship we have never experienced before through God.
i feel pretty awesome without jesus, in fact i feel better not pretending/believing he's watching over me. Here's how i see everything: It's a pretty simplistic construct. whenever people try to make a logic argument about the existence of god, they define god as the maximally great being. we can look at god, therefore, as containing all possibilities of existence, i.e. infinity. one commonly put out holds that physics tells us that the possibility for anything that can be conceptualized is equal with the possibility for any other specific thing that can be conceptualized and that both those possibilities therefore exist somewhere within the multiverse. therefore, if we can conceptualize a mgb (maximally great being), then one exists somewhere in the multiverse, and the very nature of an mgb tells us that it would have maximal power everywhere in the multiverse. the problem with this proof is whether or not we can conceptualize god. Returning to the definition, god is infinity, all possibilities, the alpha and omega, the unmoved mover, Yahweh, Allah, Brahma, whatever. Imagine this in a numerical sense - if we were to have one point that contained all numbers, from -infinity to +infinity, then that set is zero, for it contains the negation of the possibility as well as the possibility. in other words, if god contains all possibilities, is "maximally great," then it must contain the possibility of no god at all, thus it's own negation. it's clear how the system is self-contradictory and inherently negates its self - thus making god impossible to conceptualize unless you define it as limited in power - but if god is limited in power then why call it god? even using a very loose definition of what can and cannot be conceptualized that allows for paradoxes, all that a maximally great being would mean is that this being negates itself and brings the metaphorical count back to zero - the condition of there being no god, i.e. if god exists then in effect there is no god. fin.
it's a flawed proof though - firstly, a finite mind cannot conceptualize or begin to understand the universe in totality, secondly, physics tells us that the natural laws only work in our universe, it is possible and probable that other universes within the multiverse have different laws or even no laws at all. to try and apply the construct of ... Read More logic to something as ever-expansive as the multiverse is just plain childish - our vaunted qualities of rationality and reason are simply slightly elevated animal instincts and will never be able to understand the multiverse or even our own planet with our limited capacities. just because a system is self-contradictory doesn't mean it cannot exist. i mean shit, logic is self-contradictory too. the only way logic works is if you make a base assumption - that logic equals truth. the real problem is that you're never going to "prove" or "disprove" god because it's a metaphysical being - it's beyond our existence, thus we're never going to know ... Read More
the most important thing said in the above comment was this: the real problem is that you're never going to "prove" or "disprove" god because it's a metaphysical being - it's beyond our existence, thus we're never going to know
I never said you should "pretend" Jesus exists. In fact no one should "pretend". I don't pretend. I know he's real. And with that...here's a question...
What is love? It is nothing we can see, but we feel deeply in our beings and experience. We know it exists through our relationships with others, through marriage, friendships, and the love of parents to their children that is so great they would give their lives to save their child's.
We can't see it, or touch it...but we know it exists. We can't scientifically prove it, or gauge it by universal laws, and still it's there. There is no rationale behind it, and it doesn't always make sense. But there it is. ... Read More
I am not here to give you scientific proof that God exists or argue over what he is and the laws of the universe. I will admit I don't know all the scientific systems in how the universe moves, but just as I cannot prove love, I know God exists. Love is a thing that requires us to become vulnerable to others and be selfless. In this world that is something ridiculous...to relinquish a prize, notoriety, and your own self benefit and risk great pain on many levels, and even physical harm all for love. Love exists because God exists. He embodies perfect love, and we are able to love each other because God loved us first. God doesn't always makes sense...and often doesn't, he is something you feel in your heart, and something you experience. He cannot be proved through scientific measure, but just as love still exists in spite of that...so does God.
As I said before it's your decision to not believe in God and I am not out to argue you to do so. But you are trying to explain something you have never experienced for yourself and don't understand (not saying I fully understand God, because I don't). But the ways he has shown himself to me, the things I have been through in my life, impossible things happening, the change in myself from an angry bitter person to a woman full of peace and love for people that are unlovable...that's all the proof I need. Mind you I was not a bad person. I was a "goody two shoes", but God helped me see things I held inside I didn't know existed, and has healed very deep pains in my heart.
For you God is in the imagination that can not be explained rationally. For me he is the embodiment of mercy and love that cannot be rationally explained. I feel him in my whole being, and experience his existence everyday. For you to acknowledge God is absurd. To me, not to acknowledge him is impossible. I can no more say "there is no god" than I could tell my dad that I hate him and never want to see him again. (Which I love my dad with all my heart and could never say that).
This is my thought...if you refuse to believe and need scientific proof...fine. It saddens me, but you can decide to not believe in God if you don't want to. It's a free country and I am not going to berate you into believing. That is ridiculous. But in the same manner...I am free to choose to believe in God. Don't make fun of us and say things about us. You can talk about why you don't believe, but to say we are "childish" for what we believe is not necessary. I guess my question is what does it matter to you if people believe anyway. At the end of the day life is over and there is nothing left for you, but I believe there is something greater beyond this life, so what is wrong in believing in that? I'm not criticizing you or anything, but just trying to give some things to think about.
p.s. I do enjoy these types of conversations, so as I write these things I'm not doing it in anger or defense or anything. I just want you to know that.
Who said proof would undermine God' existence? And I am not trying to be condescending and I apologize if it sounds to be that way. I don't think I or any other Christian is better than anyone else. I am just sharing with you what I know and have experienced. If that is condescending then I'm sorry you feel that way.
love you brendan! always seem to step in at the right moment! and nicole: love is just hormones and the human drive for satisfaction, love being the satisfaction of choice in this case. and love is just a broad term to done upon acts of humanitarianism.
Alright then. George I will say that I really did enjoy this. Got my gears turning this morning, and you have given me some things to think on. Seriously thanks for sharing with me your thoughts. Perhaps in another status update we can chat again :p I wish you well. Take care.
God is anything but imaginary.
Neal: No.
Charlie: Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The Santa Clause... Read More
(Insert touch where all seens are)
The great thing about God is that...He is more than just something in the head and cannot be seen. The God I believe in and know is very present in life, and more directly in my own. He has shown me very clearly things that no other person would know about other people, and ... Read Moreinsights in situations. I have felt his unimaginable peace when faced with death, financial despair, and family hardships. I have seen unexplained and impossible healings that only God can do, and as He leads and directs me in my life and helped me to find my way when I was lost and confused in what to do as vocation, he helped me see my purpose...and I am now living a life where I feel more fulfilled than I ever have in anything I tried myself just to try. He is more than in my head...he is by my side, in my heart, and guiding me, giving me strength and boldness to do things I never dreamed I could ever do. My relationship with Jesus is personal and very real.
If you don't believe in God, that is your own choice, but God does not need your permission to exist and be present on this earth. Even more importantly, even if you reject him and want nothing to do with him, even then he still loves you and in fact grieves over your separated relationship. He has made a way through Jesus for anyone who wants to have a personal relationship with him can and will be given his peace, guidance, and more than we ever asked for (maybe not in material possession, but things like self-control, joy, and what we need). But those who don't will be faced with the day that he does physically show himself to them, and they will forever be separated from him, loved ones, and anything good and right. They will live in eternal abandonment with no relationships with people or other beings, loneliness, and unimaginable pain and suffering, with no hope of escape, rescue, or relief. That is the destiny of all of us, but even at our worst Jesus took that sentence for us by dieing and coming back to life, giving all of us who believe and follow him a chance to not only not go to that Hell, but to enjoy everything that is good, pleasurable, and right, and gain a perfect relationship we have never experienced before through God.
we can look at god, therefore, as containing all possibilities of existence, i.e. infinity. one commonly put out holds that physics tells us that the possibility for anything that can be conceptualized is equal with the possibility for any other specific thing that can be conceptualized and that both those possibilities therefore exist somewhere within the multiverse. therefore, if we can conceptualize a mgb (maximally great being), then one exists somewhere in the multiverse, and the very nature of an mgb tells us that it would have maximal power everywhere in the multiverse. the problem with this proof is whether or not we can conceptualize god. Returning to the definition, god is infinity, all possibilities, the alpha and omega, the unmoved mover, Yahweh, Allah, Brahma, whatever. Imagine this in a numerical sense - if we were to have one point that contained all numbers, from -infinity to +infinity, then that set is zero, for it contains the negation of the possibility as well as the possibility. in other words, if god contains all possibilities, is "maximally great," then it must contain the possibility of no god at all, thus it's own negation. it's clear how the system is self-contradictory and inherently negates its self - thus making god impossible to conceptualize unless you define it as limited in power - but if god is limited in power then why call it god? even using a very loose definition of what can and cannot be conceptualized that allows for paradoxes, all that a maximally great being would mean is that this being negates itself and brings the metaphorical count back to zero - the condition of there being no god, i.e. if god exists then in effect there is no god.
fin.
it's a flawed proof though - firstly, a finite mind cannot conceptualize or begin to understand the universe in totality, secondly, physics tells us that the natural laws only work in our universe, it is possible and probable that other universes within the multiverse have different laws or even no laws at all. to try and apply the construct of ... Read More logic to something as ever-expansive as the multiverse is just plain childish - our vaunted qualities of rationality and reason are simply slightly elevated animal instincts and will never be able to understand the multiverse or even our own planet with our limited capacities. just because a system is self-contradictory doesn't mean it cannot exist. i mean shit, logic is self-contradictory too. the only way logic works is if you make a base assumption - that logic equals truth. the real problem is that you're never going to "prove" or "disprove" god because it's a metaphysical being - it's beyond our existence, thus we're never going to know ... Read More
What is love? It is nothing we can see, but we feel deeply in our beings and experience. We know it exists through our relationships with others, through marriage, friendships, and the love of parents to their children that is so great they would give their lives to save their child's.
We can't see it, or touch it...but we know it exists. We can't scientifically prove it, or gauge it by universal laws, and still it's there. There is no rationale behind it, and it doesn't always make sense. But there it is. ... Read More
I am not here to give you scientific proof that God exists or argue over what he is and the laws of the universe. I will admit I don't know all the scientific systems in how the universe moves, but just as I cannot prove love, I know God exists. Love is a thing that requires us to become vulnerable to others and be selfless. In this world that is something ridiculous...to relinquish a prize, notoriety, and your own self benefit and risk great pain on many levels, and even physical harm all for love. Love exists because God exists. He embodies perfect love, and we are able to love each other because God loved us first. God doesn't always makes sense...and often doesn't, he is something you feel in your heart, and something you experience. He cannot be proved through scientific measure, but just as love still exists in spite of that...so does God.
As I said before it's your decision to not believe in God and I am not out to argue you to do so. But you are trying to explain something you have never experienced for yourself and don't understand (not saying I fully understand God, because I don't). But the ways he has shown himself to me, the things I have been through in my life, impossible things happening, the change in myself from an angry bitter person to a woman full of peace and love for people that are unlovable...that's all the proof I need. Mind you I was not a bad person. I was a "goody two shoes", but God helped me see things I held inside I didn't know existed, and has healed very deep pains in my heart.
For you God is in the imagination that can not be explained rationally. For me he is the embodiment of mercy and love that cannot be rationally explained. I feel him in my whole being, and experience his existence everyday. For you to acknowledge God is absurd. To me, not to acknowledge him is impossible. I can no more say "there is no god" than I could tell my dad that I hate him and never want to see him again. (Which I love my dad with all my heart and could never say that).
This is my thought...if you refuse to believe and need scientific proof...fine. It saddens me, but you can decide to not believe in God if you don't want to. It's a free country and I am not going to berate you into believing. That is ridiculous. But in the same manner...I am free to choose to believe in God. Don't make fun of us and say things about us. You can talk about why you don't believe, but to say we are "childish" for what we believe is not necessary. I guess my question is what does it matter to you if people believe anyway. At the end of the day life is over and there is nothing left for you, but I believe there is something greater beyond this life, so what is wrong in believing in that? I'm not criticizing you or anything, but just trying to give some things to think about.
p.s. I do enjoy these types of conversations, so as I write these things I'm not doing it in anger or defense or anything. I just want you to know that.
And man is Christian condescension hilarious. I love this nonsense.